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284 The Value of HTML and CSS with Mandy Michael and Lara Schenck

01:06:19 Download

Guests

Mandy Michael

Web // Twitter

Lara Schenck

Web // Twitter

Show Description

Jobs hunting and the frustration with job titles. Why isn't it ok to only know HTML and CSS in 2017? Why do bootcamps seem to focus on javscript so much? We're joined by Lara and Mandy for this episode to try and figure all of this out.

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Comments

  • Congratulations on a great episode and your two pleasant and intelligent guests. Looking for jobs in the web dev/design industry is very frustrating… I have the sensation that only Bill Gates on stereoides could get the job.
    At the end all comes to the self-awareness of how good a person think he is, how much knowledge about the required skill is enough…
    This is an extension of another issue – is it better to be a generalist or a specialist? And what does it mean to be a front-end-dev specialist? Which skills it requires?
    Working in a small advertising agency forced me to be a generalist. I could ask the javascript guy if he knows anything about graphic design, does he know how to prepare a file for printing or if he ever did a video or a 3d rendering… I do a lot of completely different tasks but trying to find another job as a generalist is very hard.

  • ben

    Ditch technology based names – we’re all coders 🙂 Companies can just list what they actually need, and would be a bonus for any specific job… e.g. Coder Required: strong vanilla javascript on client and serverside. Bonus: experience with CSS and HTML.

    Just a quick thought

  • Great episode! It stirred up a lot of feelings for me as somebody who’s role is to scope, design, build and test user interfaces. This could be a website, an app, anything with a UI. I have also written job descriptions in the past so I can relate to Mandy and Lara’s thoughts on this.

    When it comes to websites, HTML and CSS is my expertise. I do write some JS, but it’s predominantly using libraries to manipulate the DOM and for animation. I don’t write ‘vanilla’ JS or use a framework and I kinda don’t want to if I don’t have to. I am learning the fundamentals of programming and building up my JS knowledge at the moment but it’s not something I’ll be adding to my CV anytime soon.

    I just want a fundamental knowledge of JS so I have the ability to see what’s happening and how it effects what I’m doing. I don’t believe you can design and build a front-end UI without any exposure to JS in some shape or form.

    I create scope web builds, draw up sitemaps, create wireframes, write functional specs, design UI concepts, offer creative directions, create prototypes, build prototypes, build front-end toolkits, build front-end style guides, develop front-end modules, browser test front-end code, device test front-end code, re-factor front-end code, create WordPress themes, deploy front-end code, version control code… amongst other things.

    My job title? Digital Designer – no mention of developer 🙂

    • chriscoyier

      > create scope web builds, draw up sitemaps, create wireframes, write functional specs, design UI concepts, offer creative directions, create prototypes, build prototypes, build front-end toolkits, build front-end style guides, develop front-end modules, browser test front-end code, device test front-end code, re-factor front-end code, create WordPress themes, deploy front-end code, version control code…

      That’s great. The list is SO LONG for things to be good at, it’s not terribly surprising that not everyone goes the deep-javascript route.

  • SilasOtoko

    I’ve found at least one Agency called Sparkbox that advertises jobs for Front End Designers and they seem to understand that some people work best doing both a bit of design and some of the HTML and CSS development. I really like the title Front End Designer, and I’m pretty sure Chris even refers to himself as such?

  • Christian Reed

    Great episode, though I think you all dodged the question at the end of “who should the startup CEO hire?”

    Yes, a specialist in HTML/CSS will get you a better product in that area, as well as save you headaches down the road, but it’s really a question of budget. Can you afford to have that specialist, along with all the other specialists, or do you need to hire more generalists to get the thing off the ground, then fix it later… if ever?

    In a lot of ways I think this comes down to a vision of how you want your team to look. That’s why it’s great that you guys had this discussion. Engineering managers should start thinking about HTML/CSS as the core competency that it is and how folks with that skill set should fit on their teams.

  • worker201

    Great discussion. I’m technically a FED, although we recently changed our title to UI Engineer. One thing we do a lot of is email development, for which the skillset is old-school HTML plus a maddeningly limited subset of CSS. JavaScript is only useful if you want to build a template generator or something. I suspect it’s not a very common form of front-end dev, but it is out there, and people who are really good at it are hard to find.

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